Log in

No account? Create an account

in a web of glass, pinned to the edges of vision


I'd forgotten how often we saw Magritte

mucha mosaic


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
Ignorance is not intent.
Asking to learn is not affront.
Offended is not entitled.

This vocabulary lesson brought to you courtesy of a few folks.
  • TAKE YOUR PRIVILEGE AND GET THE HELL OUT OF LIVEJOURNAL and find someplace that isn't so insane and let me know when you find it

    Edited at 2010-07-25 10:35 pm (UTC)
  • Ignorance is not a defense, either. Not to be pedantic, or anything.

    However, I agree with your point of view, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Oh, wait...
  • And while we're at it, politeness and/or a request for it is not an insult.
    • Actually, I think at that point you invoke The Tone Argument, and you totally get to be insulted. Politeness is a form of privilege, after all.

      Edited at 2010-07-27 03:11 am (UTC)
    • Interestingly, there's only two links on the first page there which is relevant: the one is just repeatedly crosslinked from other places.

      There are some interesting assumptions at work in the repeatedly-crosslinked one, too- among them the assumption that a request for polite behavior is a request for education. I don't think 'you're being rude' is the equivalent of 'you're less worthy than me'- it's an ad hominem argument, at worst; i.e. 'I'm not going to listen to your point because you're presenting it to me in a manner I find objectionable'. Far more often, though, it's just 'take it down a notch, would you?' Turning that request into an attempt to denigrate the addressee's worth just hands the other party the upper hand. Which... kind of seems at odds with the intention. ;)
    • I entirely disagree with this argument on about six different levels. Politeness and decent behavior is accessible to all and should be used by all, and everyone is entitled to its benefits as well as its responsibilities. If asking someone not to swear and shout and use egregious insults is a "tone argument", then the "tone argument" is in serious danger.
    • (no subject) - feyandstrange - Expand
  • Asking to learn is not affront.

    Except when it is.

    For instance, when it's essentially, "You, hey you over there talking about [finer elements within large concept]. Come over here and explain [large concept] to me while I passively listen even though I haven't done any initial reading on the topic despite copious resources (available at my fingertips even!) where I could go observe the flow of the conversation and learn the language and get down the basics (and, you know, basically read the FAQ). What? What do you mean I was interrupting you? What do you mean you're not going to drop everything and come spoon-feed me the answers that are readily available to me elsewhere? DON'T YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BE ON YOUR SIDE? HOW DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU WHEN YOU'RE SUCH A [derogatory term]. I ONLY WANTED TO LEARN."
    • Hmmm. If someone asked me 'I want to know more about this, make me smarter?', I'd be within my rights to say 'I don't have the time-- check google, I found a website a while back named ____'. Someone getting snippy with me about saying that, though? that's where the affront comes in for me, not with the seeking of knowledge.
      • Absolutely you would. I would also think that you'd be within your rights to be irked if that was the same question you got over and over again from people who didn't have enough basic respect for you to do a little basic research before barging in and demanding information. And even with a willing teacher one might be better served by observing anyway. I've found that I feel like I catch more, learn more when I start by listening. By participating in a system, you alter it.
      • Which, I'd add, is different from asking for resources. (i.e. "Where do I start?") And different from talking 101 issues with close friends.

        But, from the hostile reaction I'm getting downthread, I'm going to assume that I'm missing something and withdraw from the conversation in this forum.
    • Someone walks into my living room, yells at me for terrible transgressions. I ask them to explain what I did. They snort and tell me they don't have time to spoon-feed me, I should go do my homework and come back when I'm ready to grovel?

      ...Yeah, fuck that noise. Even the cops have to tell me what I'm being charged with.
    • This has, within certain communities, become a catch-all excuse for rudely shouting down any request for information whatsoever, and that in and of itself is a poor example.

Powered by LiveJournal.com