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The white house has accused the Ukranians of having had a fraudulent election

I'd forgotten how often we saw Magritte

mucha mosaic

The white house has accused the Ukranians of having had a fraudulent election

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mucha mosaic
Three days before the presidential election in Ukraine, the White House said Thursday the initial round of voting did not meet a "basic test" of a truly democratic process and that the government should ensure Sunday's balloting is better.
And all I can think is
well, George, takes one to know one.
  • That's not very witty. We're not a democracy. The founding fathers didn't want mob rule, so it's not one person, one vote. It's a representative republic. Which the Ukraine is as well, supposedly. Just for clarification.
    • What you just said:
      A: we're a representative republic
      B: the Ukraine is (supposedly) a representative republic.

      How do these two statements of fact in any way invalidate the concept that he'd know an illegitimate election in a representative republic when he saw one, assuming that he was illegitimately elected?
      • Your childish insinuation (takes one to know one) is that Bush recognizes an illegitimate election in that he was the decided victor in his own illegitimate election, either in 2000 or 2004. If the former, get over it. If the latter, that's just your own, personal brand of kool-aid-drinking and again, get over it.
      • Well, to me, your phrase 'the decided victor' says it all about 2000.

        Might I ask what brings you by? It seems a bit out of the blue that you've turned up to play troll, and I'm wondering what prompted it.
        • I suspect that I speak for my new friend here, you DIRTY BASTARD PROBABLY IN NAMBLA I BET YOU VOTED FOR NADER GO WASH YOUR BLACK-SOLED FEET TAKE OFF THE DAMN BEADS GO GET A REAL JOB TURN DOWN THAT ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC liberal, when I say:

          Death to all free-thinkers
      • Please, for the love of all that is holy and good, return to the stream under the bridge from which you came.

        And stay there.
        • Why yes, yes there IS a village missing its idiot. The village called and they'd love for you to return, dear troll.
      • The phrases 'childish insinuation' and 'personal brand of kool-aid-drinking' suggest that you missed Rule Number 6 about my journal (no ad hominem arguments); this is why you are now finding yourself unable to post to my journal.
        I set the rules up for a reason; if you're going to utilize something that is administered by someone else as a forum, you need to follow the rules they provide. This is a

        For those of you wondering about these rules, please feel free to consult my user info.
    • I agree that the US is not a democracy in either the technical nor the commonly understood sense. I would also agree that correct official term would be representative republic. But this term is also misleading. In addition to the Ukraine, both Russia and China are also republics. Most people assume that it is the people who are being represented in this republic. However, there are any number of issues in which the legislature regularly makes decisions that only a tiny minority of the public would agree with. If you consider the US to be a plutocratic republic, this disparity (between those represented and actual decisions) disappears.
      • Shhhhh! you're attempting to use logic in response to this post. AND you're making an effort to hearken to the spirit of the law that is the Constitution, rather than the exacting letter of it.

        You're not allowed to do either of these things unless your agenda's writ in letters of flame 40' high, remember? Those of us who examine things rationally, conservatively, or in any way differing from the Neocon agenda are supposed to shut the fuck up.

        Didn't you get the memo?
        • Oops! It didn't put on the lotion (or drink the kool aid). So I suppose it gets the hose.
    • We're a democratic republic. Why are so many people (usually rabid right-wingers, but not always) hung up on the "WE'RE NOT A DEMOCRACY, WE'RE A REPUBLIC" kick? I don't get it.

      Democracy is at the core of American governmental values. The power comes from the people. No, of course it's not a "direct democracy," but nobody is claiming it is, anyway.

      Why is there this "Republic not Democracy" fetish? (It SURELY can't be because of the NAMES of the political parties in this country...)
      • Shhhhh! you're attempting to use logic in response to this post. AND you're making an effort to hearken to the spirit of the law that is the Constitution, rather than the exacting letter of it.

        You're not allowed to do either of these things unless your agenda's writ in letters of flame 40' high, remember? Those of us who examine things rationally, conservatively, or in any way differing from the Neocon agenda are supposed to shut the fuck up.

        Didn't you get the memo?
      • t. rev

        (Anonymous)
        You keep using the word 'neocon'. I don't think it means what you think it means.
        • Re: t. rev

          'When I invent a word', Humpty Dumpty explained condescendingly, 'it means exactly what I say that it means.'
        • Re: t. rev

          I agree. There are certain traits which neocons share, but these are not common to all Bush supporters; most of the ones you encounter on the Intarweb these days are just plain cons -- no, not a classical conservative, but not a neocon either. A "new" conservative who isn't really a conservative at all, but rather a reactionary type.

          Neocons are liberals, when it comes down to it. Most of them don't particularly even like the social conservative agenda of the far Christian right.

          This is why Cheney, as evil as he is, really has no problem with his daughter being a big ol' dyke. He doesn't secretly hate her. He isn't a fundie moralist. He's just a neocon.

          --Kynn
          • Re: t. rev

            Have you read Ms. Cheney's novel?

            Good christ it's abysmal. Let the conservatives have her.
          • Re: t. rev

            I'd disagree that the Neo-Cons are liberal in the mold that liberals have been for the past 40-odd years. Alfred Lilienthall had the following to say about them:

            "... many of the founders of this neo-conservative dynasty were at one time the same Trotskyists and other Marxists that I personally opposed back in the 1930s. At the 1936 World Youth Congress, I led the walkout against these Communist elements. How ironic to see these same shady characters later reinvent themselves dramatically into a new brand of conservatives and gain considerable influence during the Reagan presidency. They may have changed their name and hijacked true conservatism, but their agenda is the same as when the elders among them were Marxists. Control is the name of their game no matter what side they are playing on."
            • Re: t. rev

              Well, I didn't say they were nice liberals. :)

              --K
      • Oops sowwy!
  • The irony would have been more pronounced if it'd been right after the 2000 election, but I'll take what I can get. :)
    • Indeed.

      I love that Nader's found funding to seriously investigate Ohio- he gets to play stalkinghorse for the Democrats there, now that he's played stalkinghorse for the Republicans all campaign long.
  • Pst.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4040041.stm

    Ukraine On Brink Of Civil War.
  • congratulations on attracting some frothing right wingers! It's a sign of status you know - you've managed to make them angry (admittedly not a difficult thing since they seem to be always kind of angry), angry enough to troll you! Keep up the good work!

    BTW: I find it amusing that undemocratic systems in foreign countries are things America should oppose (usually by enforcing the 'will of the people' by slaughtering a great deal of them) while undemocratic systems in the states are just a rejection of 'mob rule'.
    • Unfortunately, the frothing right wingnut involved has a mutual acquaintance who he's in the habit of A) reading the friendslist of then B) spewing at. I'm not a special star. I'm just lucky enough to get bullshit spewed at me because I don't agree.
      Dissent is an american value, dammit.
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