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Song of Ice and Fire observations.

I'd forgotten how often we saw Magritte

mucha mosaic

Song of Ice and Fire observations.

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mucha mosaic
George R. R. Martin, who writes too damn slow, leaves me no option but to blather on livejournal about his work.

1: We get to see Eddard Stark's body. We get to see Katelyn's body. We get to see everybody's corpses along the way. So why are we so sure that the son who was King in the North is actually dead? they didn't show us the corpse.

2: Jon Snow's obviously Katelyn Stark's nephew-by-marriage: not her children's bastard half-brother, but their bastard cousin by way of her sister-in-law. Jon was begat by the king who kicks off in the beginning.

Any other thoughts or observations, please feel free to add 'em in comments. If you want to avoid spoilerage, don't read the comments here.
  • We get to see Eddard Stark's body. IF you don't believe the "Ned Isn't Dead" conspiracy theory. (which I don't, but think it's fun to argue).

    We don't get to see his body. We get to see his head - but it's a tarred up head stuck on a pike that could be anybody's. And to make matters worse, Martin confuses things by having the heads of two boys stuck on pikes in book...two I think? Only to have them not be the same boys. So Eddard Stark could be alive all this time. It's just really really doubtful.

    We get to see Catelyn's body Yes, we do, but the last chapter of book 3 is pretty telling, too.

    That being said, I think the Freys would make sure the King of the North was good and dead and even deader. They're the ones with access to his body and they're the ones who are going to make good and sure he stays that way.

    I think the big interesting question for book 4 will be the Martells: Now that Oberyn Martell is dead (what a cool character...and he lasted for what, 50 pages? Bah.) what will the "unbowed, unbent" Martells do about the Lannister king?
    • we do get to see his head being lopped off, though, through his daughter's eyes, remember?
      • I believe the conspiracy theory seems to suggest his daughter did indeed see someone that looks like her father die, but it wasn't her father. They seem to think it's due to the involvement of the Faceless Men.

        Like I said before, I don't really think it's a good theory, I just think it's fun to bandy about.
  • #2 is the least intuitive "obvious" thing I've ever even heard of. I mean, I can't think of a lick of proof of it. By "the king who kicks off in the beginning" are you talking about Jon Arryn, the King's Hand, or are you talking about the ten-years-dead Targaryen king whose name escapes me? (Rhaegar?) Ned seems pretty sure that Jon is his; Jon's getting a direwolf implies it pretty strongly from a symbolic perspective; and some of the interplay between Ned and Robert in the North and on their way to King's Landing implies pretty clearly who the boy's mother is.
    • No, Jon is Targaryen.
      The promise that Eddard made to his sister was to raise him as his own son and never tell anybody who his real father is.
      • This is a neat theory, but where in hell does it come from? I've seen no evidence of it whatsoever.
      • Is going to have to go digging through my books again, but its in there.

        Some of the things that happen at the Tourney at Harrenhal (who does Targaryen give his favor to again? And she gladly takes it), as well as Dannerys' journey through the House of (Can't remember their name).

        Jon IS one of the three heads of the Dragon.

      • The 'evidence' is very circumstantial but all over the place.

        I think the king is named Ageon, his son, the crown prince, is Rhaegar. In the War of the Usuper, Rhaegar dies at the Trident fighting rebels led by the eldest Baratheon, and NEd's best friend. Baratheon supposedly led the rebellion not because Rhaegar, in Robert Baratheon's words, 'raped' Ned's sister and stole her away.

        After the Trident, Ned hand-picks his best men and rides south to track the last of the Kingsguard, who, it turns out in a rather chilling and sad scene, turns out to be the best and most honorable of the bunch...possibly hand-picked by Rhaegar for a special purpose. Why they are sent far south when the crown prince is fighting for his life and country is never told.

        Ned's sister is often associated with blue roses, she dies surrounded by blue roses, asking Ned to promise her something.

        Ned returns to Catelyn with a bastard Stark named Jon Snow. He refuses to talk about where Snow came from, causing his wife Cat grief.

        In book 3, we see a memory of a tournament in which Rhaegar wins, passes by his wife to deposit a wreath of blue roses in front of Ned' sister.

        Arya and Jon Snow are supposed to look like one another, save Jon has violet eyes (I think, not so sure on the eyes). Ned mentions in book 1 how Arya looks like his dead sister.

        In addition, Possibly spoilerific Prophecies in all three books seem to suggest Ned's sister and Rhaegar had a son - a child who is equal parts ice (the magic of the old, first inhabitants of the continent, whose blood flows in the Starks), and fire (the dragon of the Targaryen)

        What will actually happen it's hard to say. However, the big key to the story will be the introduction of the crannogman whose name I forget, the leader of the swamp people and the best friend of Ned. When he shows up, he'll likely have a lot to say, as he's the only other person who knows what Ned knows.
    • Your lick of proof, Senator Kem.

      First off, I've not looked at the books in a year; forgive my imprecision. Serce's (sp?) husband? He who was the king at the beginning of 'Game of Thrones'? the king to whom Ned Stark served as Hand? Yeah. Him. That's who I think begat Jon Snow on Ned's sister. Not a Targaryen, not a Lannister.

      The evidence I'd offer:
      1: remember all the bastards that were being rounded up to be slain by the Lannisters, about the same moment in time that Serce's husband died?
      Remember how they all had black hair?
      Remember how one of them- the blacksmith's boy who (if memory serves) also winds up on the Black Watch- is roughly of an age with Jon Snow?
      Remember how Jon, also, has black hair?
      Remember how Sirce's husband has black hair, unlike his wife, which was part of why it seemed odd that his 'son' would be blond despite having one blackhaired parent?
      Genetics could indeed play into it, as it played into some of the Lancaster / York follies known as the War of the Flowers, upon which the tale's based.
      2: How did Ned's sister die? We don't specifically know, but we do get shown her grave specifically, in the first book. To me, this implies that there's a story there that matters. Same point, actually, as I'm making in #1 with the dead Stark king @ the Frey keep: Martin plots very straightforwardly, and tends to write to lead you away from his plots. It's like he sets this rule that he HAS to show you everything, but only at the end of a book/trilogy/&c does he tell you how everything fit together. Sorta like writing mysteries.
      • Re: Your lick of proof, Senator Kem.

        Interestingly, Dybbuk67 and I do agree that he's not Ned's bastard at all. He's only described as a Stark bastard, not the bastard of Ned Stark.
    • You should take a look at the newsgroup alt.fan.grrm - there's been lengthy debate and analysis on this point for months and months itemizing the argument for him being Jon Targaryen son of Rhaegar. There's enough evidence to at least make it a distinct possibility/intent of Martin's...
      • You imply that reading Usenet wouldn't be like leaping onto a pile of razor blades.
      • Au contraire! I merely consider recommending you having to leap onto a pile of razor blades just desserts for aborting Birthright. :P
      • Amen about Usenet.

        On a different note, how do you know eynowd?
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